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Back when I was still doing a lot of fabrication work for other artists, a friend asked me to weld a gate for his backyard. Nice guy, helped me move a block of granite once. I quoted him basically materials plus a couple hundred for my time. He was happy, I felt good about it. Five years later he wanted a matching gate for the front. Expected the same price. Then his brother heard about it. Then a neighbor. Then I'm the guy who does cheap custom ironwork for an entire neighborhood and every one of them thinks I'm gouging when I finally say no. That was the last time I did a friends-and-family price on anything. Cost me more in aggravation than I ever saved in goodwill.

A friend of a friend wanted a mosaic tabletop, her grandmother's coffee table, kept the legs, I just did the surface. I quoted €650 because the materials were real and I felt bad asking more from someone I sort of knew. It took me eleven days of actual setting. Two euros an hour, give or take, and that's before I mention the time I spent cutting glass and sweeping it off the floor. The annoying part isn't even the money. It's that she's a lovely woman who paid on time and told everyone about me. So now I've got three more awkward referrals coming my way, all of them from people who think €650 is the going rate for a week and a half of handwork. I keep telling myself the exposure is worth something. It isn't, really. But I don't know how to start the conversation with "that was a friend price" without making it weird for everyone. How do you all actually raise your number after you've set it once with someone's circle? I've been dodging it for a year.

Fellow mosaicist cut my rates a while back. She told me there was no way to sell "real art" in this economy unless you priced to move, and honestly I listened for longer than I should have. Dropped a 60x80 piece from €1,400 to €900 thinking I was being smart. Then a client comes to pickup, a hotel owner who'd commissioned it. Looks at the invoice, looks at me, and says flat out: "You undersold yourself. That's an insult to the person buying it too." He paid me the full €1,400 on the spot and told me not to do it again. Thing is, he was right and I knew it. That piece was six weeks of work, smalti I'd imported from Venice, and I'd priced it like a print from IKEA. The friends-fear of pricing yourself out is real but the other direction is real too. When you don't value the work, the buyer reads it as low quality, not a bargain. Raised my floor back to €1,400 for anything with smalti in it. Lost one regular customer since. Still sleep fine. That hotel owner taught me more in one sentence than any pricing workshop ever did.

A friend from the parents at my daughter's school. She knows I paint. She asked me to do a portrait of her daughter, a nice photo reference she had, the girl in a garden, good light actually. I said yes, I'd be happy to, and told her my price for a bust-length oil on linen, 40 x 50 cm, which is 1 200 €. She paused and said: "But you'll enjoy doing it." Not in a nasty way. She genuinely thought that because I would like the work, it shouldn't cost as much. As if pleasure and payment are opposites. As if a baker shouldn't charge for bread because he likes to bake. I explained that enjoying my work doesn't mean my time and materials are free, and that the years I spent learning to paint a child's face well enough that she'd want to hang it are part of what she's paying for. She said she'd think about it. She hasn't replied. I don't blame her exactly. Nobody taught her what this costs. But I'm tired of explaining that my enjoyment of the work doesn't subtract from the price, it's the whole reason the work is any good in the first place.

A former student's mother asked me to paint her Helleborus niger in flower for a birthday gift. She is a lovely woman, she has been generous with my classes, and I said two hundred and eighty pounds before I had thought about it at all. That is the whole trouble, of course. I said a number to be kind rather than a number to be paid. It arrived in October. I made three drawings before I was satisfied with the arrangement, painted it twice and discarded the first attempt because the greens had gone muddy at the edges, and then spent the better part of nine hours glazing the white petals so they would read as white on white rather than as flat paper. Twenty two hours in total by the time it was mounted and wrapped. I worked it out afterwards, as one does, and it came to less than thirteen pounds an hour, before paper, before paint, before the frame she asked me to recommend. The painting is good. That is the difficult part. She will hang it and it will be correct and quiet and it will not occur to her that it was ever anything other than a favour, because I priced it as one. I have told myself the lesson is simply not to quote in the moment. What I actually think is that I have never once worked out a friends and family price and had it come out fair, and I keep doing it anyway, which suggests the problem is not arithmetic.

A panel, 20 by 30 cm. A little olive tree, smalti and salvaged stone, the kind of thing I can hold in two hands. I quoted 340 euros to a woman who found me through a friend of a friend, and she came back with "but it's only small, can you do 150?" Here is the thing about small. Small is not less work. Small is the same hands, the same cutting, the same three kilos of tesserae sorted by tone before I set one of them down. The size of the finished piece has almost nothing to do with the hours. If anything I lose money on small work because the setup eats a bigger share of it. I said no, and I said it kindly, and I explained the hours once. Not a lecture, just the arithmetic. She went quiet for two days and then wrote back and took it at 340. I am not posting this to be praised for holding the line. I am posting it because I nearly said yes. I stood in my kitchen at eleven at night doing sums in my head and thinking, well, 150 is 150. That is the actual danger. The number is small enough that you can talk yourself into it and then you have taught someone what your work costs. What I want to know is how the rest of you answer the size argument, because mine is getting tired and I would like a better one.

So I painted these two pet portraits, same size, same level of detail, both head-and-shoulders of someone's dog. A stranger commissioned me and I charged $150 and felt nervous about it. Then a friend from college asked me to do her cat and I immediately went "oh for you, $50" and then I painted the cat and it actually came out better than the stranger one. So my friend got the better painting for a third of the price and I keep thinking about that. Like I know we all do the friends and family discount thing and it's fine but it bothers me that my work isn't the same price regardless of who's asking. Or maybe it should be different because the relationship is different? My mom says I'm overthinking it because the friend will tell people and send me more work but also my mom thinks I should charge more for everything so I don't even know anymore. I guess I'm wondering where the line is between being generous with people you love and just devaluing your own time because you feel awkward asking for money from someone you actually know.

so a friend of a friend wanted a big one. 36x48, their loft, "whatever you think looks good" which is the most expensive sentence in the english language. i quoted 900. felt fine at the time. that was 11 days ago. since then: 2 stretched canvases bought (ruined the first one, long story, don't ask), 3 tubes of that phthalo, a roll of tape, and i've redone the same corner twice because the edge kept going soft. did the math last night out of curiosity, which is a rookie move. comes out to like 14 an hour. for the most stressful 4 weeks of my year so far. and the part that actually stings is i know exactly what happened. i had a number in my head from 2021, from when i was broke and desperate and flattered anyone asked, and i just... said it. didn't even think. it came out like a reflex. i'm delivering monday and i'm already drafting the email for the next person who asks. 1 800. not negotiating it down to feel liked.

was doing a small commission for a friend of a friend. like, 3 days of work for me. i quoted them $500, thinking it was generous. they jumped on it so fast. turns out they’re a lawyer and their billable rate is $800/hr. i spent the next week feeling like a total idiot. i should have charged them $3000, minimum. now i’m stuck doing this piece for way less than it’s worth, and i feel like a sucker. gonna have to be way more aggressive with my numbers going forward. this whole thing is a minefield.

Found out last week that a watercolour commission I did of someone's ancestral home got flipped. I charged ₹4,500 for it, which took me about three days on and off, and the client apparently sold it to a relative for ₹18,000 not even two months later. I only know because the relative herself DM'd me asking if I'd do another one like it. I don't even know how to feel. Part of me is flattered, clearly the work holds value. But I sat and did the math on my own time that night and it came out to maybe ₹110 an hour. That's less than what I used to pay my auto driver for a round trip to the site. The annoying part is I'm not even angry at the client, I'm angry at myself. I priced it as a "nice thing for a friend's family" instead of as a piece of art that takes skill and years of drawing buildings. Nobody in that transaction underpaid me except me. Still haven't figured out what the right number is but it's definitely not ₹4,500. Worst is I now have two more requests lined up from people who heard about the first one, and I have to raise my price in front of the same circle of people. Awkward.

Saturday, open studios, and I'm not paying attention because I'm talking to a man about his dead father's shed for twenty minutes. Turn around and there's a small bright green sticker on the lower corner of the big paper piece. Some kind of dinosaur. I left it. It's still on there. Two days now. Partly I'm annoyed. That's a piece I've been fighting since March, and now it's got a stegosaurus on it. Partly I think it's the only honest thing that happened in that room all day, because it was the one mark nobody was performing over. The kid saw a thing and stuck a thing to it and walked off. No statement, no price list, no explanation about tension and memory. The friend who helped me hang says take it off before the next thing. She's right, obviously. I just keep not doing it. Anyone else had their work improved by someone under the age of six

so i did the math months later and that's like $18/hr before materials. and she was the one who suggested the price, i just nodded. i knew it was low but i didn't wanna be the guy who haggles with a friend. now every time i look at that painting i just see $18/hour staring back at me. i don't even know what i'd have said if i had to name it. 500? 800? feels fake to ask for that. but 200 also feels fake for 11 hours. so i'm stuck in the middle where both numbers feel wrong and i just don't talk about money with anyone i know personally anymore lol

for years I had "DM for pricing" at the bottom like everyone told me to. the reasoning was always that talking to people gets you further than a number on a page. then a friend who sells furniture online said something that stuck. she said the only people who ask about price are the ones who already want it, and you're making them jump through a hoop to find out they can't afford it. so in march I put actual numbers up. the torn paper pieces at 240, the big charcoal ones at 900, a couple of small ones at 85. lost nothing. no angry messages. what I did lose was about an hour a week of the same conversation, the one where someone says "and what would something like this run" and then goes quiet. and I got three sales off people who told me later they'd been watching for months and only bought once they saw I wasn't going to ask them to negotiate over DMs like it's a rug in a market. the thing nobody warns you about with hiding prices is that it makes you look like you're deciding how much each person is worth. I wasn't doing that. I just didn't want to be told my numbers were too high. which is its own problem, and putting them on the page mostly cured it, because the number stops being a thing I have to defend in a chat window and starts being a fact on a page.

I had this piece sitting in my studio forever. A birdhouse made from an old fuse box, wired with a single warm bulb inside. I thought $450 was fair, maybe even a little high. Three years. Nobody. Then this woman comes by, loves it, pays asking price no haggling. I was just relieved to have it gone. Then a friend texts me a screenshot from some HBO show. There's my fuse box birdhouse in the background of a scene. She looked it up, the set dresser rented it from a prop house for two grand. For a week. I charged $450 for something that took me years to make and someone else made almost 5x that in a week just for having it on a shelf in a fictional living room. And honestly I don't even know who to be mad at. The system? Myself for not knowing what things are worth? Both? Still trying to figure out what the actual lesson is here. Not sure it's just "charge more."

Raised my prices two months ago. Not by much, from 350 to 450 for a portrait. I had this whole spreadsheet argument with myself about it. The logic was fine. Someone actually bought one at the new price last week and I still felt guilty about it, like I'd overcharged a friend. But here's the thing nobody warns you about. The silence. Before, I'd post a finished portrait and get the usual little hum of interest. Now I post the same quality work and it's just... quiet. I know it's partly the season and partly the algorithm being moody. But I can't shake the feeling that the quiet is people deciding 450 is too much. The other part of me, the part I'm trying to trust more, says it's just that higher prices filter out the people who were never going to pay anyway. One buyer who treats it as a real purchase beats ten people who say "oh I love your work" and mean it as a compliment to themselves. I don't know. I keep going back and forth. Any of you who've raised prices and sat through that quiet stretch before it paid off, tell me it got better. Or tell me you dropped back down and it was the right call. I need someone else's spreadsheet.

my cousin asked me to make a piece for her new apartment. i quoted her $400, already discounted, my normal price for that size is $650. she said "oh i thought family would just help out" and i caved and did it for $150 in materials. took me about 14 hours total. she posted it on instagram and someone asked where she got it. she told them it was "a gift from a friend." haven't done a family discount since. i'd rather give someone the piece outright than do that weird in-between thing where they feel like they're doing you a favor by paying you below your rate.

Years ago, before I had a real website or knew what I was doing with pricing, I ran a little workshop out of my studio. Just a few hours, materials included, you go home with a small piece. I charged €35 because I was scared to ask for more and it covered the tile and the wine. A tourist from Australia came, loved it, posted about it. Next thing I know it's on some blog. Fine. But then her friend emails me asking if I can do a private session for four people at the same price. I said yes because I'm an idiot who hadn't learned to say "that was a group rate." Now eight years later I sometimes still get people who found that old blog post and expect the €35 price. I've raised it to €65 and they look at me like I'm trying to sell them a car. I should have changed the name of the workshop or something. Instead I just have to be the bad guy every time someone shows up with a screenshot from 2016.

Painted a 120x150 for an old friend's anniversary two years back. She told me, tearfully, she couldn't afford my gallery price and I said of course, don't worry, we'll find something. Named €600, which was about a third of what that size goes for. She spread the word, quietly, and for a year after that I got three more people "from her circle" who all wanted the same deal. Each one I had to find a way to say no to without making her look bad. The painting itself was good, actually maybe the best of that stretch, and part of me still resents it. Not her. Me. I set the number and I treated my own time like it was worth nothing when a friend was on the other end of it. I've started telling younger painters in the academy a simple rule I wish someone had given me: the discount should come out of your profit, not your hourly rate. Figure out your real number first, then decide how much of it you can afford to give away. If you can't afford to give it all away, you can't afford to give it at all. I know it sounds ungenerous. It's actually the only way I stayed generous at all.

Sold a 16x20 charcoal portrait this week for $180 and I finally did the math I've been avoiding for years. 22 hours on it. That's $8.18 an hour and I'm honestly embarrassed I typed that out. The worst part is I knew better. She was my aunt's friend so I did the "family discount" thing before she even asked. Aunt's friend, not even family. I gave away money nobody asked me to give away. I keep doing this. I price from fear. Fear that if I say $400 she'll say no and I'll have wasted the charcoal. But I already spent the hours. The hours are spent either way. I'm not mad at her. I'm mad that I can't seem to stop being the one who underprices myself before anyone else gets the chance to do it. Every single time. Like I'm pre-emptively apologizing for being worth something. Gonna sit with $8.18 for a while and try to actually feel it instead of just doing the math again next time and doing the same thing.

Custom steel gate, welded and hung last month. Charged €1,600. Client's friend looks at the metal and says, "well the steel's only about €400 of that." Yeah. And the 60 hours of welding, fitting, and the trip back to fix a hinge I didn't get square the first time, that's the other €1,200. I don't know when people started thinking the price of a thing is the price of the stuff in it. Nobody says that about a mechanic's labor or a plumber's callout. But a gate, everyone's an expert on what steel costs at the yard. Used to charge €1,100 for the same gate and I'd eat the mistakes myself. The hinge redo alone was a day of my life. Nobody ever thanked me for the free day. Went up to €1,600 this year and I've been second-guessing it ever since. Then that comment came and I realized I'm still too cheap. The raw material being €400 is exactly the point. If I only charged for material I'd be a scrapyard.